Call Me Limbo
Call Me Limbo is your weekly dose of comedic therapy where pop culture and politics get tossed in a blender with personal stories, improv games, and zero chill. Hosted by Dai and David—two queer best friends with more opinions than filter—the show tackles everything from reality TV and music videos to capitalist hellscapes and Bad Bunny’s underwear.
It’s entertainment with a little revolution on the side.
Sometimes you’ll laugh until you cry. Sometimes you’ll cry until you’re organizing a union. Either way, we’re here for the drama, the joy, and the work of building a better world—with jokes. Always with jokes.
We believe the personal is political, but also… pop culture is too damn fun to ignore. So whether you’re here for the Disney Channel wand impressions or a fiery takedown of billionaires—welcome. You’ve found your people because when they go low.....we go lower. So, Call Me Limbo!
Call Me Limbo
Why are people gooning in Dollar Tree?
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"Y'all make it hard for me not to say open the prisons."
This week, Dai and David dine at a nude restaurant, enroll at charm school, dream of being interviewed by Ziwe, nationalize the travel and grocery industries, conduct some psychological research, highlight Flavor Flav as a feminist icon, revisit their days as trombone and baritone players, attend the OTHER Cornell, find the nuance in public policy, respond to a listener question about FDR, and much much more.
This episode is a little wild because "the windows come down and the clothes come off," and we finally answer the age old question of why are people gooning in Dollar Tree.
Dollar Tree 'gooning' incident sparks lawsuit in Colorado (Denver Post Gift Article)
Feminine norms and eating disturbance (International Handbook of Behavior, Diet, and Nutrition)
A restaurant in South Florida is offering a new way to wine and dine (NBC6 on Instagram)
Gay dating and checking out other men (Instagram)
Call Me Queer Sex Education with Nick/Nicole Castro (Call Me Limbo on Buzzsprout)
Call Me Kinky & Consenting with Nick/Nicole Castro (Call Me Limbo on Buzzsprout)
Call Me Modern Monetary Theory with Steve Grumbine (Call Me Limbo on Buzzsprout)
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Theme Music by Aidan Ivory Edwards.
Logo by Mark Mittelstaedt.
Hello and welcome to another episode of your favorite podcast. It's your boy Day. And I'm David.
SPEAKER_04And stop gooning at Dollar Tree.
unknownWhat?
SPEAKER_04This is Call Me Limbo. Have you not heard about people gooning at Dollar Tree?
SPEAKER_02I thank the Lord that I have actually. Do you know what gooning is? I do know what gooning confuses me, but I do. Like I've heard of it. The closest thing that I can equate it to is edging, but I know that it is different. And I don't it I don't understand it in totality. And I don't know if it's meant for me to, to be honest, at this point. But sure. No, that's okay.
SPEAKER_04But if you want to tell the people, because I'm sure there's some other Urban Dictionary and Modern Internet slang, according to gooning primarily refers to a prolonged state of sexual arousal achieved through continuous masturbation and edging, often while watching pornography for hours. The Denver Post keeps reporting on this story. And the title of it, I'll put a link to the article in the show notes, is Dollar Tree Gooning Incident Sparks Lawsuit in Colorado. And so it's like they're basically using gooning as a synonym for public masturbation. And so like these people are going into this is like sexual assault. Like this is not funny. Like, but I was like, it's crazy that people are doing this. That like people are going into Dollar Trees because these stores are like famously understaffed and lack security and going in there and like publicly masturbating, and they're like confronting people. It's gross. And so, like, yeah, it's crazy. So, yeah, there's a evidently there was a lawsuit filed here in Colorado recently in El Paso County, alleging a woman shopping with her child and mother was victimized in March 2025 when a man followed the family around a Dollar Tree in Colorado Springs, which is like an hour south of Denver, and ejaculated on her. It's so gross. And so it's like, why are people gooning in Dollar Tree? Why are people gooning in public? Anyway, why do we call it gooning?
SPEAKER_02That I think the word itself is just gross. Honestly, it's very akin to the C word that I hate a lot that starts with a C and ends with a K and it's a euphemism for dick, like or for penis. I hate it. Hate it, hate it, hate it. Absolutely hate it. So yeah, I'm I'm disgusted. Honestly, if I could rewind time five minutes ago and never have heard this story, I would have been a happy person because people are disgusting.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So yeah.
SPEAKER_04So stop gooning at Dollar Tree. But you had uh a story that you sent me about a restaurant in was it in Florida? I'm sure it was probably in Florida. Actually, that's the queue. It was in Florida. It was in Florida. It was in Florida. And I you texted me and said, we should talk about this on the podcast. And I said, well, I have an intro that will sort of transition to this. Oh, yeah. Because I think that the fear of people of this situation is that people would start gooning, but they're not, I don't think. So your face. If you're just an audio-only listen listener, it might benefit you to go over to YouTube and search our Call Me Limbo podcast page and discuss watch Days look at Days' face.
SPEAKER_02Michael Jackson and Janet Jackson in their hit song Scream said, I was disgusted. All the injustice, all the injustice. Like that's how I feel. Like I'm just, every time I think that, like, oh, we've reached the the final level of the basement of depravity, surprised, there's another one. And I'm just like, why are you doing that at a Dollar Tree? And then worst of all, like you're going up to unassuming patrons of said place and thinking it's okay to do that. Like there's nothing there's no rationalization for that in my brain. And I don't Yeah, like there's just sometimes I just I understand some people have like a public kink and I could give you that regardless of my moral like thoughts on it. But you had you then cross a line when you decide to engage not just unwilling participants, non-consenting participants, but literal children.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02Like what are we doing? I don't, there's just nothing. I would I want to say open to schools, but at this point, y'all make it hard for me not to say open to prisons. I don't know what to tell y'all. Like, I'm just tired. I'm tired of nonsense. I am, I genuinely am. Like, come on, y'all. You're making it really hard. David is an abolitionist, a prison abolitionist. And I don't want to have to have a whole conversation about why some of y'all are making it hard for people to want to hold that position. Because I'm just like, this is ridiculous. So yeah, it's a no for me. It's actually hell no.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I said to myself the other day, I was like, you know, maybe the prisoners should be running the prison. Because I was like, I, yeah, I if we're gonna abolish the police, we don't need them there.
SPEAKER_02Maybe the prisoners should be running the prison. You know what? I don't know about the prisoners running the experiment because then that gives me vibes of the Stanford prison experiment. For those who are unaware, that was a famous 1971 study led by Philip Zimbardo. It was essentially like they took college students and put them in the role of like guards, randomly as guards or prisoners in a mock basement jail. It was supposed to go for two weeks. Um, it stopped after six days because the guards became abusive and prisoners suffered severe stress. So we are not allowed to do things like that anymore. There are actually, we have like review boards for behavioral studies or, you know, psychological studies and stuff like that. But yeah, so I don't know. Yeah, I feel I my fear, well, granted, one could try to argue, I've it has been a while since I reviewed the study, you know, if you remove the role of guard, do would people naturally assume it? I don't know. Maybe because of just conditioning at this point. So I don't know if that would work. But nevertheless, that was me nerding.
SPEAKER_04There's another there's another study. I don't remember what it's called or who did it, but it's around like authority in like a research setting and how there's like a professor or like a researcher asking a person to like push a button to deliver shock therapy and each uh the Milgram experiment. Yes, yes, that's right, yes. And the and the shock increasingly gets like stronger and stronger, and it's an actor on the other side of the the thing or the screen or whatever, and they and the the researcher says, for the purposes of this experiment, you need to continue delivering like the shock, and a lot of people do because of authority, even though like the the intense shock would have killed this person, and so like yeah, rethinking ideas of of authority is is really, really important.
SPEAKER_02So I'm curious about that when it comes to other like there are authoritative positions or roles where people feel that need. Honestly, the way that people treat how we're supposed to oblige the police sometimes feels like it has adjacency to the study. But again, that's me speaking off the cuff. I'd have to actually look more into the details. But what I would say is that one of the findings of the study was the high obedience, because over about 65% of people participating in it actually did take it up to the 450 volt level, despite the fact that they could hear the listener screaming or crying, you know, making stab, blah, blah, blah, blah. So to show you the power of authority, and of course, this along with the Stanford prison experiment, actually, those both kind of are why we can't do certain types of studies anymore, because the amount of psychological stress and the ramifications, the harm that it did to the participants.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. I don't know if you know this or if I've if I've told you this, but when I was in college, I was part of my psychology research team, like my psychology professor's research team. And her specialty was on eating disorders and like body dysmorphia. And so, like our research study, one of them that I was like pretty involved with, was we put on like, I don't know what they're called, but they like detect people's like, like the there were patches and stuff that you put on people's skin and they like it would detect people's like heart rate and stress levels, like cortisol levels. And they we would have them wear swimsuits and just stare at themselves in the mirror for like a certain amount of time. And like we noticed that like, and we correlated it with certain like sexualities and genders and just seeing like if if people's like cortisol levels or stress levels spiked when they were staring at themselves in in a mirror in like a in a in a swimming suit. So yeah.
SPEAKER_03And they and they primarily did.
SPEAKER_02That's really interesting because I know they do have like those biometric or electrical like patches and things like that. I I didn't know that they did it for that, so I'd be curious to see that research.
SPEAKER_04Like just because that's I will put a link to I will put a link to my published research in the show notes. I would actually with Dr. Melinda Green. Shout out to her. Yeah. So at Cornell College, you know I went this this was another one of like that I had in my that's what I always say. Like, no, but I was like, you know, I went to Cornell, right? And so like, but like people, I always I always say I was like the other Cornell, exactly. I was like, I went to Cornell College. I tell them that. Like, you went to Cornell? And I'm like, I did. I don't correct them. I I said it right the first time.
SPEAKER_02That's one that's exactly right. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I met someone recently that went to Cornell, and I can't remember. Oh, I do remember who it was, but I don't know if they want me to put their business on that. But I can't now I'm forgetting if they went to the Cornell because they were from Iowa. But I can't remember where they where they went, but if they went to which one. But I remember when they said it, I said, Oh, my friend went to Cornell in Iowa. And I was like, they tell me the other Cornell. And I was like, I had no idea. Didn't know for a year. So it's like high likelihood.
SPEAKER_04It's a good school. It was it was a better school when I was there. They've started just letting in anybody just because of because education is a business. So the acceptance rate has gone up since I've been there.
SPEAKER_02But yeah. Well, shout out to Cornell. Listen, if you wanna, if anybody wants to come on and defend it or talk about the changes, open invitation.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, they're going through a new presidential search right now. So I yeah, I I don't know. It's it's a business. That's the thing. I was just like, they're so focused on growing the endowment, which I'm like, how about providing education to people at an affordable cost? Do you all have great sports? Oh god, no. The the football team was like oh and 12 every year that I was there. Uh the there were some the track team was okay, and I think maybe the soccer team was okay. Maybe the baseball team, not totally sure, but yeah. Yeah, the sports, there were people there on like athletic scholarships, but not a lot. You didn't know. There were a lot of people in on music scholarships too. I was on an academic scholarship, but like, yeah. And I was like, but I also like still participated in like the wind ensemble and the orchestra just because I wanted to play my trombone. And so funny, I never practiced ever. But I was still like first chair in the the in the orchestra in the window. Yeah, I was. And so I not so humble break, but like, and all these other people who were there on like music scholarship were like, David, like when do you take music lessons? I was like, I don't, because I don't have to. Um and I don't know.
SPEAKER_02You did grow up in a musical household, though. I did. Yeah, I did. I don't think I realized that it was the trombone that you played. Maybe I did and forgot, but that is really fascinating.
SPEAKER_03Have you heard the story?
unknownNo.
SPEAKER_03I played the baritone.
SPEAKER_02I hated it.
SPEAKER_04You did? You played the baritone? I didn't know that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I I because I originally wanted to play the trumpet, but I've discovered my buzz was naturally too low. But I wish in hindsight I actually would have played a woodwood instrument because I hate the buzzy feeling.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02And so it made practicing and being a like even now, I went like because I hated that feeling on my lips. So yeah, I didn't like playing baritone. I did it for like two years, I think. Really? I started late as well. I started like maybe going into eighth grade versus sixth grade, like everyone else. And then I played in high school for I think it was just one year. It might have been two.
SPEAKER_04I did not know that. I also wanted to play the trumpet, and I I went in fifth grade when that we like could start practicing for like or when we could be interested in in joining band. And I also wanted to play the trumpet because my dad played the trumpet.
SPEAKER_02And that I didn't know.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. And so your parents met? Um, they did meet at the high school where like my my dad taught. My mom was the piano accompanist for the show choir and like the other choirs, and then that's how they met. Um, but yeah, but no, so I was like, I wanted to play the trumpet because my dad played the trumpet. And when I got there, the band teacher said, Oh, your lips are too big for the trumpet mouthpiece. I think that you should play the trombone. He needed trombone players. There were a lot of trumpet players. So I was like, Oh, okay, but that was the reason that he gave me was because my mind.
SPEAKER_02I wonder if that was the real reason, and they just told me my buzz was naturally too low. Because she was letting me try it. She was like, and nothing was coming out. And she was like, try this mouthpiece, which was bigger. And when I did, I did. She was like, Oh, your buzz is too low. But now I'm like, what if it was just her nice way of saying your lips were too big? I don't know. Maybe the lack of tact in Western Nebraska. That because I could understand the racial implications of her saying that. Sure. I now I'd never thought to question her rationale before or like look it up. So now I want to do that. This episode, y'all, we are 17 minutes in, and I don't even know what we're talking about, but I love it. Y'all be listening to it, so thank you. This is a legitimate phone conversation we're having right now, just on the public. I haven't got to any of the clips that we wanted to talk about.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. So I know I had a complex about it for a while, but not anymore. So I've never had any complaints about my big lips. There you go.
SPEAKER_02Honestly, people are getting injections now to have your lips. So why not? Exactly. Exactly.
SPEAKER_04And I was like, I and I don't need them. So yeah. But you wanted you had a an Instagram clip you wanted to show us about a restaurant in Florida.
SPEAKER_02I did. So I'm gonna share it with the people because you know that's just a little thing that I do. Um, let me find it. All right. So to set things up, this video is about a restaurant out in South Florida, which is so funny that you guessed that, where they essentially have a monthly new dining experience. So I wanted to talk about it.
SPEAKER_00Because the windows are host our new dinner where guests can come and just take their clothes off and have a great dinner.
SPEAKER_01Ali says the blinds go down and the clothes come off. Nestled in the heart of Hollywood is class steakhouse soiree. Owner and chef, Murad Ali, says they've been up and running for about eight years.
SPEAKER_00It's legal because the windows are completely blacked out, no one can see from outside. Our staff are fully clothed, so there's no um entertainment from us. The entertainment is just dinner.
SPEAKER_01He says the idea came after the restaurant hosted a private party for nudists.
SPEAKER_00Once the event was finished, my idea said, Let's do it ourselves.
SPEAKER_01Now the experience is open to adults with a five-course meal and a few extra layers of cleanliness.
SPEAKER_00We have a robe that everyone is offered. We have a leather seat cushion, which is sanitized, and we also have a laptop. And the concept may not be for everyone, but Ali says that's exactly the point. The first Monday of every month, we have our host. Well, all right.
SPEAKER_04I would love your thoughts first. You know, I have two thoughts. The first one was I am I I was really happy I didn't see any like fajita skillets. Sicily. No hibachi, no hibachi. Uh that was when you sent me that video earlier. I was like, oh my god, I was like, I don't, I'm it's probably better for everybody that they don't like, don't they, that they're not having fajita skeletons. The other thing that stood out to me was the leather seat cushion. Because I was like, have you ever sat naked on like a leather couch where you're like peeling your skin off? I know he said there was like a little towel, but it's like, is this for the leather community?
SPEAKER_02Like, I I genuinely had questions about that. Like the boodoo, the boo-boo juices on the leather. I don't know. I just feel like that's harder to get off. Like, I don't know what materials should be used in lieu of it. Figure that out. But like I just felt like leather, maybe, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe leather is easier to clean than I think. But yeah, it just felt kind of like yeah.
SPEAKER_04No, I was just like, I, you know, I I want to know the logistics.
SPEAKER_02Like, is there like the windows come off and the clothes come off?
SPEAKER_04Like where do the clothes come off? Do they come off at like the host stand? Do they like do they have like lockers? Where are they putting the clothes? Can you like, do you have to go to the bathroom and change? Probably not if everybody's naked, but like, do you have to make a reservation? Is it like seating? Are there already naked people there when you get there? Like, I yeah, there I have a lot of questions. But I was like, I'm not outright opposed to like trying something like this. But like, I yeah, I don't know.
SPEAKER_02So I'm gonna say this: if you want to free the nip, up the tip. So if they are pant tipping these people really well for their work and having to see all their body parts, I'm all for it. I genuinely don't really have any uh objections to it because I'm like, they're just eating. They're just eating naked. Like, I'm not nudity, nudity is interesting. Like, I don't think I would personally do it in my current body configuration, but like I don't really care if other people wanted to do it. And they all are going in there consenting, knowing that this is what's happening. Like, it makes me think there's an episode of Golden Girls where they're actually on like a an island, but they had a nudist resort unintentionally. And it's funny because the one place where you weren't supposed to be naked was dining. So they show they finally get the courage to be naked, show up to the dining spot in everyone's clothes. But I mean, for me, I guess logistically, like, God forbid you spill a little coffee or some soup on on your on your titty or your or your bitty, and then you just like dang, third degree burn. But I mean, I'm not that pressed. I actually think it's an interesting idea because I think sometimes we sexualize experiences that aren't inherently sexual, like you're just eating. Just naked. Naked. Yeah. Yeah. So no.
SPEAKER_03I it sounds like yeah.
SPEAKER_02If you would like to go to the naked place and eat to the naked diner, let us know. Well, maybe y'all won't know. I don't know. Some people are a little shy.
SPEAKER_04But yeah. I that's a thing. Do you order off the menu? Is it like a pre-fixed course, though? Oh, yeah, five course, yeah.
SPEAKER_02So probably pre prefix, you may have selection and stuff. Like now I'm like, do you do raw sushi? Like, I don't know. I just feel like do you play into it? Egg rolls, um, oyster, oysters, chicken breastsis. You know, like let's go ahead and go with it. Chicken fie, a little leg, you know. I don't know. I feel like that would actually make it more of a bit, is like have like sex on the beach as a drink. Like just have play into it. But it doesn't seem like they are. I have to look it up. Now I'm curious.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I like this. So, yes. Well, I was gonna say, speaking of going out to eat, what was this other video that you had? It was about a guy going out. On a date and yeah.
SPEAKER_02So I'm really sad. Yeah, so this one I don't know if it'll let me play it, but let me see. But it was a video where this guy had gone on a date, he was a second date with the guy, and he said it kind of made him sad because when he went on the date, there was an attractive guy, I guess, that walked by, and the guy was like, ooh, like he made a comment about like, ooh, he fine, something of the sort. And the guy said, you know, is he being overly sensitive? Because he felt some type of way about it and was kind of disappointed. And I guess the guy tried to brush it off like whatever, we're men or something, because it was a gay guy, whatever. And I'm not gonna lie, I would have been pissed. And I know, you know, people have their own thoughts. But for me, I'm like, if I'm on a date with you, especially date number two, and you're already peeping other people or trying to make commentary about how attractive someone else is, I'm cutting you off. Like the date is in my mind, the date is over. Now, if we're doing something that I feel like doing, then maybe I'll go through the motions for the fun of the date. But yeah, I'm not gonna be interested in you romantically because to me, it's kind of my thought process in general. Like, I don't comment on the attractiveness of other people with my partner. You have friends for that. Because I don't know, some people say, well, you're supposed it's healthy, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, I don't, there is no need for you to tell me about other people you find attractive. I'm not stupid that, you know, when people are people and people can find someone attractive, it doesn't inherently mean that you're going to want to, you know, do anything with them. But I would love to live in the ignorance and the bliss of thinking that you don't. Because then I also don't need to be thinking, like, well, who else, what other type do you be having? Like, I just don't need any of that. Call it insecure. You can call it, you can call collect. I don't care what you do. Just don't call it in front of my presence. Like, I just feel like that's a boundary for me. It's like, keep that to yourself. I don't care.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. I'll put a link to the video in the show notes so people can watch it. But yeah, I was like, my thought was like when I saw it, was like, okay, yeah, I would probably have my feelings a little hurt too. And then I also thought back to past episodes that we have done with friend of the podcast, past guest friend of Phoebe Award winner, Patreon member, Nick Castro. And about like polyamory. And thinking about, I was like, okay, what is the arrangement in this relationship? It sounded like it was a monogamous, at least the intent was monogamy. And so yeah, I would probably have my feelings hurt too. But I was like, if it was like a polyamorous situation, maybe that would be an opportunity to yeah, it would be, it would be different. But yeah, I'd probably have my feelings hurt too.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And they go how they feel as hurt when they found out I'm not trying to holler at them no more. And I was like, oh, that was that was definitely something. Because my thing is, when do you tell them? Because I part of me is like, I can't tell. I think he told them in the moment. And like my question is if you tell them, would you wait till the end of the date to mention it, or would you tell them in the moment? Because now I'm like, it could definitely become a contentious point, potentially, if the person doesn't think it's a big deal. Do you just end the date? Like, I don't know. That's because they were in line for something. Huh? I don't know. Like, I kind of I admire the people who be like, I'm not feeling this. Let me go. Like, I I admire them too.
SPEAKER_04I was like, it probably depends on how horny I am.
SPEAKER_02Oh my gosh. So it really wasn't gonna make or break your, it wasn't gonna make or break the relationship. It wasn't gonna make or break a connection of any sort. So see, mine was like, it's I have no interest in like can can continuing anything with you. We could at best be friends, but I would not. I don't even know because now I'm like, I don't even trust you as my friend and not disrespect me like that. So who knows?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02Y'all I'm petty. That's why I'm single.
SPEAKER_04So no, that's all right. You have standards. You have standards and expectations of behavior that that how of and how people should treat you. Yeah. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I could learn a thing or two. I need to go to Dave's charm school.
SPEAKER_02The whore jumped out and then it jumped back in. Oh my gosh, please insert that clip. That's so good.
SPEAKER_04Um Charms Do you remember Monique's charm school?
SPEAKER_02Do I? I quote that all the time. The whore jumped, the bes the behavior you exhibit was very whore-like. The whore jumped out and then it jumped back in. Like, I quote that at least once a week. It's one of my absolute favorite shows. It's so good. So good. So they don't do reality TV like that anymore. You can. I don't even think you could at this point. It's just, it was people weren't aware yet. Now people are self-aware. Yes.
SPEAKER_04That was uh VH1, uh, flavor of love. I love New York, real chance at love, real chance, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Oh, all of those like special things. Flavor Flav, the flavor of love always upset me because I just could not believe people were fighting over Flavor Flaves. Like, I to this day, it disgusts me that that was what people were fighting over uh over that man. But you know what? Stranger things have happened.
SPEAKER_04So Yeah. I think he was like had like a brand to deal with raising canes for a while. Really? Yeah, I think so. But you know, Flavor Flav has also been like amazing for like, I don't know, was it women's gymnastics or like it was like a women's. Yes, Flavor Flav has like sponsored like an Olympic team and like paid for that like true like feminist icon, Flavor Flav by putting his money where his mouth is.
SPEAKER_02But yeah, he did a sponsor, uh uh, he became a sponsor and hype man for multiple USA Olympic programs, starting with a multi-year deal for the U.S. water polo teams ahead of the 2024 um Paris Games and extended his support to the U.S. Bobsled skeleton team for the 2026 Winter Olympics. So shout out to it. Um, and he has done a lot of advocacy for people. And listen, I am not taking that away from that man. There's just no way that when I close my eyes at night and I thought about dang, I was fighting on national TV, would I ever imagine that the person I was fighting over would look like him? But you know what I say? There's I don't believe people are ugly because oh it's like, oh my god, I'm doing a David.
SPEAKER_04It's like I always like you always say, Dave.
SPEAKER_02And I really do, is that I don't believe people are ugly unless you're ugly on the inside. I always say everybody, some everyone is the apple in somebody's eye, even if they're a Rutabaker in mine. And that is how I view Flavor Flav. So shout out to him. The fact that he had all the women on TV acting a fool for him, that he must, in the words of Tamar Braxton, he must have the ding-a-ling of gold. So here we go.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Have you seen the Z-Way interview with Tiffany Pollard, aka New York? I've seen snippets. She just did one with Law Roach as well that I was. Yes, which was I spent like 15, 20 minutes watching clips on TikTok of that interview. So funny. So funny. She does great work. I I appreciate Z-Way.
SPEAKER_02I didn't understand it. Like I didn't, I don't, I didn't even understand it because I didn't know I was not familiar with her. So like I didn't understand her brand or her bit, like how she goes about it. And so like it took me a minute to be like, wait, what?
SPEAKER_04But I appreciate her. She's so funny. The interview with like Portia from Real Housewives of the Channel is so funny. Like she's had some great the um the one that she had with Mayor Eric Adams from New York is just hilarious. Like, uh, I would love, I don't know if this is a I I don't know what this says about me. I would love to be interviewed by Z Way. I would love to be interviewed by Z Way, and I would love to interview her. Oh my gosh. Z Way, if you're listening, please.
SPEAKER_03Let's make it happen.
SPEAKER_02It'd be great. Oh, I think it'd be great. What's that guy? Did she interview uh the gay Republican that was in Congress?
SPEAKER_04Oh my god, George Santos!
SPEAKER_02Yes, another iconic interview. Yeah, she just gets it. Like, I just some people haven't like I aspire to that level of to be able to create comedic content like that out of serious stuff. Like, it's just it's a gift. It's a gift.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. No, she's she's great. So yes. Well, in our final few minutes here, I did have a couple of uh political things that I wanted to pick your brain about or just at least mention. We did get a we we my friend Lindsay, friend Aphoebe Award winner, Lindsay, and recent Patreon member. Lindsay, I want Lindsay to come on the podcast as a guest and talk about me because she has known me. Not only is she really, really, really smart, she's also really funny. And she's known me since I was like four or five years old. And she tells this story about dropping out of preschool because I told on her when she ran off at the pumpkin patch. That is like there are also photos of us day at in preschool when I went to this preschool of like when the one the class that I'm in, no one is smiling in the photos. And then I transferred to the YMCA preschool the next year, and then in Lindsay's photos at this other at this preschool that I originally went to, everybody's just gleefully smiling, the photos that I'm not in there. So I was like, I was a tyrant. I was the, I was the the cop that I rage against. Against people can learn, people can change, people can change. But yeah, it's really funny. I would love to have her, have her come on. But she wrote in and she's she's asked me this question a couple of times. And I wanted to get your your thoughts on it because I've I've had some thoughts as well. When we talk about like being like FDR Democrats, she said, you know, FDR also put Japanese people in internment camps.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_04Like, how do we reconcile that with him like creating these social safety net programs with also doing these like horribly racist things? I'm curious if you have any thoughts.
SPEAKER_02Sure. Um, I've thought about this before because it's an argument you hear occasionally because a lot of the things that were established didn't always extend to black Americans as well. And I look at it like, yeah, bad, do the good thing remove the racism. That's kind of my thought. Like, I think to be honest, it's something that I think more recently has been a turning point, and I'm still developing this. Because I think most presidents and quite frankly, most historical figures are complicated and deeply flawed people. Um, like I can believe that the New Deal fundamentally, which it did, changed America for the better. But I can also believe that the Japanese internment camps were, of course, like indefensible actions. So like appreciating the good someone accomplished doesn't necessarily require me to sanitize the harm that they caused. Um, and I kind of look at it like if anything, holding both truths is important. And being able to recognize, like, I am specifically saying I believe in this universalist type programs that were shepherded by this person. It's similar to like LBJ. Like, I don't agree, like LBJ as a person, and some of his own beliefs I think were abhorrent. However, he did sign civil rights legislation. Now, granted, a lot of his president and a lot of progressive, you know, quote unquote things happened during his life. Of course, he was overshadowed by the war, um, and things like that, rightfully so, given Biden vi vibes. But it's just like, I don't know, I guess that's how I view it. It's like MLK. Like, we know that MLK had a history of womanizing and things like that because of all the tapes because he was being recorded. Um does that mean I don't think his advocacy or his civil rights, you know, work wasn't important, you know? I think while I like to believe there are people in history that were saint-like, it is something that the more you kind of get into people's business, people are effed up. And they're they can do great things. I mean, honestly, if I'm really being frank, it's not a point that it's unique that I'm making, but at since the founding of our country, we have been that complex duality. Like, we have a document that's was arguably the most radical of its time, believing that all men are created equal while simultaneously owning slaves. And like a certain scepter of these people were signing that document while still perpetuating that harm. Women were not included or seen the same way. So it's like all these conflicting ideas were running concurrently, and I think I'm grateful that we've evolved, but it just shows me that people can do great things and be terrible, do terrible things all in in one lifetime. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. I agree. It's kind of how I feel like I'm gonna get canceled for this. But I was like, it's kind of how I feel about our current president, Donald Trump. Where I was like, I think he is repulsive. And I think what he is doing in terms of like gutting a lot of social safety nets is is awful. I think what he's doing with ICE is terrible. I think it is so cruel and unnecessarily cruel. I think the fascism and the racism and the hatred that has like bubbled up on uh under him that he has stoked is is terrible. And he also, like in his first term, like passed paid family medical leave benefits for federal employees. He's the one that oversaw Operation Warf warp speed, where we developed the the COVID vaccine.
SPEAKER_02He was also the first thing. That's what I can I actually argue that's his best thing, but funny enough, his base hates it. So it's like damn.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yes. And so it's like also like I I think I can make a I think I can make an argument for some of the things that he did in his first term, more so than his current, his second term. Um, but like he also like we got stimulus checks under him. We got one under Biden as well, but like the way that he marketed it was really brilliant and sending those letters to people with his name on it, people don't pay attention very much. And so, like, it was really, really smart. Something that I think also that he's done in his second term that I that I actually agree with is part of the Big Beautiful Bill. And let me preface this with saying, like, I think that the Big Beautiful Bill was a primarily a giveaway to to billionaires, millionaires and billionaires, and allowing them to just keep more of their more of their money. And we're approaching a $40 trillion deficit. Whereas like, go back and listen to our episode with Steve Grumbine, where we talked about the the national deficit, modern monetary theory. There's there's ideas there in order to like get rid of the deficit. But we are something that he did as part of the big beautiful bill was now contractors, it used to be where you used to you companies used to have to issue someone a 1099 for this is not financial or legal advice, but yes, but it was like the companies used to have to issue contractors 1099 forms and report income paid to contractors for any amount over $600. As part of the big beautiful bill, something that went into effect this year in 2026, that threshold was raised to $2,000. And so, and it will adjust with inflation going forward. So let's say, for example, I'm just making this up. But let's say, for example, that David Kugler Consulting wanted to pay a contractor $1,900 for contract services. David Kugler Consulting could hypothetically or actually legally write off that $1,900 as an expense to that business as contractor, as a contractor payment. David Kugler Consulting, the company, would not be required to issue a $1099 to the person who did the contract work for them. And that person who did the contract work would not be required to report that $1,900 as income. I think that's really good because then people get to keep the full value of that money. Something else that was passed as part of the CARES Act back in 2020, which and I we've talked about this as well. I believe that student loans should be completely forgiven. Absolutely. Yes. I interact with someone who's paid them off. I have paid off my student loans, and I still think that they should be forgiven for everyone. I think that they should be forgiven, and I think that we should have completely free public schools, public university for up through PhD. Yeah, like not even scam. It is a scam. It's a business. We talked about this earlier in the episode. When when I talked about going to Cornell and the other one. The other Cornell.
SPEAKER_02The real Cornell. There you go.
SPEAKER_04The real one, the purple one, the purple one, not the red one. But um, but no, as part of the CARES Act, he he stopped student loan payments. He stopped, like he put a student loan pause. And under Joe Biden is when that student loan pause like undid. Joe Biden is the reason why people have to make student loan payments again. A lot of people are not paying them, which I fully support. I fully support people now. Wait, I've been paying them for nothing. A lot of people are not paying them. You can also get them in like you can call and get them in like forbearance, where like you can, and and you can also get them like income adjusted as well. So yeah. So yeah, but as um as part of the CARES Act that was extended uh indefinitely, as indefinite or as permanent as anything is, but as part of the big beautiful bill, because it was set to expire in 2025, was businesses could write off up to $5,250 of an employee's student loans. Um so like companies could pay. So like if I still had student loans, David Kugler Consulting could pay up to $5,250 the company toward David Kugler, the individual's student loan payments and write that off on the business taxes. So employees, if advocate for this as an employee benefit. If we're not gonna get student loan forgiveness from the federal government, advocate from this as an employee benefit. Advocate from this for your employer. Advocate to your employer that you want, you want student loan benefits to have them make up to five over $5,000 in student loan benefits or due. They get to write it off on their taxes and you reap some benefits in lowering your student loan, student loan costs. So like that was extended as part of the big, the big beautiful bill. I think those are good things. I think those are things that benefit regular people. And I also think that what Donald Trump is doing with ICE and detention centers and expanding policing and like just the the military budget and Iran and Israel, like what he's doing to the people in Palestine, like is evil beyond like like just evil beyond. Like I just can't even make sense of sense of it. And so I think that I think that we can hold both of those things at the same time. But there is nuance in all of this, and people have to be willing to listen to to other people to to sort through the nuance.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I mean, we look at a yin yang symbol where we see, you know, there is always a dot. No, nothing is all evil, nothing is all good, that type of argument. And like again, even with the the things that you listed that I do think were good things that come out of that administration, I it's been a while, so I I'd have to see like who was actually advocating for those things because it likely wasn't him, but Zonka was the one that was advocating for the paid family medical leave. And it's like, even if they didn't agree with everything, they did sign it. And I it's similar, similar to Biden. Like, you know, there are many shortfalls that we've talked about at nauseum about the Biden administration. And I said, I think it's totally fine to call those shortfalls out. And of course, the most obvious thing uh the genocide and support of that, which I think rightfully overshadows many of the good steps that we were being taking as a, especially on domestic policy. But it's like we can have the nuance of like, you didn't follow through a student loan that you didn't do these things, but did you make some really good steps in like terms of infrastructure, labor rights? Did you go far enough? Of course not. But like we did do things that were good. And it sucks because I think it's important sometimes to not don't undercritique, but don't over-critique in a sense. Because I think it's important for people. Sometimes there's a tendency to how do I say this? Human psychology I believe would support the idea that when positive reinforcement is good. And so sometimes when you people want to often say, like, oh, they work for us, I don't care. And I look at that and I'm like, even as employees, most people don't like when they're constantly being worked and never praised for doing a good job. And that's why I think it's important when something's good to praise it as good. But when it's bad, also call it out. Because I think it gives you a level of credibility to take seriously. And you don't come across as always whining or always just sucking off the teeth of said person. And I think something you said and something to be learned from with the marketing of the good things, I think Zoran does a great job of taking to because like Biden did, there were good things he did, but he didn't know how to communicate that. And what I think I admire most about Zoran's comms team is that they make a point to make sure you know what they're doing. And in ways that is truly it, it's amazing what it's amazing what communications can do as a candidate. And I think as a as governance, not just as a candidate, but through governance, like letting people know, hey, that pothole filled. Because you have to remind people don't, if everything you do is behind closed doors, and especially for things that maybe take a while to see, which a lot of like Biden investments would have taken a while to be revealed, people are not gonna credit you for it. And one thing Trump was not finna do was not take credit for things like the STINE, et cetera. And it's like, no, that isn't, that's a part of governing. And I want people to take that into account and to really think about how can we do both. And yeah, that I I say that. And I some people, I'm arguing, sorry, this is like an aside and I'll let it go. Because I'm curious your thoughts. I'm arguing, I go back and forth about is one of the positives about Trump, and I hate that, because someone asked me this. Because I'm not, I don't see myself as an accelerationist, meaning like things just have to get worse before they can get better. But some people argue that, like, had he not been re-elected and had this not been our scenario, would the Democratic Party voters broken the fever in the way that we see now with the Democratic establishment? And I don't know. And I would honestly argue, while I think it could have gotten there, I don't know if it would have gotten there as fast.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02So do I see that as a positive? I struggle saying yes. I do think at large it is, but I also am stuck with like there's a lot of pain, death, destruction, harm being done. So it doesn't bring me joy to say like I'm happy that people are finally agreeing with me in calling out both the Democrats and Republicans. But I can say that the conditions did expedite the concern that I feel people have now.
SPEAKER_04You know, too, even I would even say some of my conservative friends would say that like an overly powerful federal government and or monopolies in capitalism, the next inevitable step they will tell you is socialism. For me, I think that's a great thing because eventually you're gonna have what do we have, three or four major airlines now? And eventually it's probably gonna become three, and then probably two. At some point, they're likely going to be nationalized be or have to be nationalized because of the way we have created shareholder value and we extract money out of these companies for a handful of people. I am a corporation and I know that I am so much more than just a corporation, but I do that from my business as well. They are called distributions, and it's totally legal, and it's taxed a lot lower than my wages. And it's taxed a lot lower than if I were just to do regular self-employment. And there are all sorts of tips and tricks legally to be able to reduce your taxable liability through these through these systems. And so it's like when we have less choice in the market, inevitably, if if that one or two, if those one or two choices cannot be sustained based on their like current business model, if we want those to continue to operate, the government's gonna have to come in and bail them out. We've already seen it in the banking industry. We have how many banks that are too big to fail? Chase, Wells, Fargo, Capital One, like all these banks that are too big to fail, Citibank, I think, is another one. And now we know, and even with the Silicon Valley uh bank a few years ago, when when the when these accounts had exceeded millions of dollars more than the FDIC limit, the government came in and just backstopted it and just reimbursed the entire amount of money for the account balances.
SPEAKER_02It's real to the people.
SPEAKER_04Yes. So it makes me think. I was like, okay, I think it's good that we have a federal government that is willing to protect people in that way and to protect people's money. I really do. Yes. Whose money is a different question. And how much money, again, is a different question. That's why there's FDIC limits, stuff like that. But like, I know that that's some of my conservative friends worry about that. I think it would be great. Nationalize the airlines, give people a free vacation every year and let them take a trip on the US, US airline. Like, and like, and you know what? Nationalize the hotel industries. Marriott and Hilton own most of the hotels in this, in this, like, in this country. Same thing. Then like Windham, there's a very few select like options in terms of hospitality. Nationalize them and let us go on vacation. Nationalize Kroger and Walmart so that we can all get universal snap cards and go get groceries for free. Like there's I don't think that this is radical. But I think people should eat, have a place to sleep, and get a chance to breathe. Right. I don't think it's radical, but evidently, evidently it is.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I mean, there's a lot there, and I think it'd be a fun conversation to see if there's like somebody who specializes in this to like bring on. Because I actually think that's it is perceived radical in our country, but it's not really that radical in any other places. Um, but I like that. And I think, first of all, I just want to remind people none of that was uh financial advice.
SPEAKER_04However, and if you would like financial or legal advice, David Kugler Consulting has been a sponsor before. Yes. Feel free to reach out to call me Limbopod at gmail.com and we'll connect you with David Coogler Consulting.
SPEAKER_02Actually, you can go to DavidCogler.com and you could actually information, he's quite diligent. He responds, excuse me, the consulting company does respond quickly, and they do offer services that could provide you with financial advice. So highly recommended bias on the table. Have worked with um their CEO before for quite a while. So I just want to put my bias on the table, but have referred people and can confirm the work is great. So thank you.
SPEAKER_03Thank you.
SPEAKER_04Of course, yeah. And David Kugler Consulting has professional liability insurance, which I think is really important to note. Yes. Yes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Only you can prevent forest fires. So one month continuously stay freed up. But yes, we are running long on this episode. That's because we love y'all. We love running our mouth and we love getting your questions because, and I hope that answered, Lindsay. And if you have any feedback, if you don't like our answer, you want to like push back, please do. Like that's the come on and tell it to our face. Be our guest and come back. I actually want to be a guest. I want you to be the guest because I want to hear about David the tyrant as a child as a tiny top for Christ when he was a tyrant. Because that to me sounds like I want to ask all my questions about baby David. And so I need you to come on. I really do. We went to church together. We grew up going to church together. See, we've never gone in deep depth about a lot of these topics because David and I didn't meet until older. So Leslie High High School, you know. So, like at this point, I don't even know this life of like who is this man, you know? I need you to come on so I can get a better picture, a more rounded picture of my friend. So yes. Um, well, Lindsay, the invite's open.
SPEAKER_04Yes. If you enjoyed this episode, feel free to share it with a friend. Rate us five stars on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or the platform where you listen. Get in touch with us at Call Me Limbow Pod on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, and threads. Send us an email at callmilimbopod at gmail.com. Go subscribe to our Substack, call me Limbopod.substack.com. You can get the episodes emailed right to you on Friday mornings. That's how I remember. And I'm, you know. Truth be told, me too. Yes. Great. I'm like, oh yeah. Yeah. So yes, you can do that. Or you can go become a Patreon member. Patreon.com slash call me lumbo pod. There are three levels of support: $2.35 a month, $4.69 a month, or $14.95 a month. We're in the final few weeks of our summer subscription season and we need your financial support. So please go on over to patreon.com.
SPEAKER_02Big thanks to the people who have been coming on. You guys, we won't call everyone out, but you all have been hearing our crop call for our summer subscription. So thank you for everyone who has joined recently. We love having you in the limbo lounge. We are getting ready to add more stuff. I even promised last week that I am restarting my music writing just for you all. So I'm excited. I'm working on a big one on a big artist who has a birthday next month. Some would say she's a queen. Um, and she's a Virgo. So if you, you know, there's only but so many people I could be referring to. So yeah.
SPEAKER_04I have no idea. So I'm excited to read. Yes, yes. To read that. Yes. And if you are a Patreon member, you'll be the first one to receive that, and then the Substack members. Um, so yes, you get exclusive content, you get the full video episodes, you get early access to the episodes, you get monthly wandering thoughts from me, and then you get little extras from like Day as well. So in terms of the the writing. So yeah. And you get the feeling of supporting supporting us. So yeah, or you can send one-time contributions on Venmo and Cash App at commandbo pod. And you know, Day, it's like I always say you might want to unmute yourself for this one. Oh gosh.
SPEAKER_03Like I always say flavor, flavor. Oh my god. It's just nonsense. Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Oh my gosh. On that note, everyone, thank you so much for listening to Call Me Little. We love you, we thank you. And remember, when they go low, we goon in private. So call me.
SPEAKER_03I erased that. Fuck.