Call Me Limbo
Call Me Limbo is your weekly dose of comedic therapy where pop culture and politics get tossed in a blender with personal stories, improv games, and zero chill. Hosted by Dai and David—two queer best friends with more opinions than filter—the show tackles everything from reality TV and music videos to capitalist hellscapes and Bad Bunny’s underwear.
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Call Me Limbo
Call Me My Most Authentic Self with Shane Hodges
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This week, Dai and David are joined by Shane Hodges to talk about coming out, navigating relationships, healthy communication, Michelle Obama, and how to become the most authentic version of ourselves.
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Hello and welcome back to another episode of your favorite podcast. It's your boy Day.
SPEAKER_02And I am David, and together we are creating conversations. This is Call Me Limbo. Today we are joined by a very special guest. He is a fellow Nebraskan. He is a therapist. He is my friend. And he is a newly published author of the book It's Time to Be You, How to Become Your Most Authentic Self. Shane Hodges is here. Shane, welcome.
SPEAKER_01Thank you. Thank you very much. Welcome, welcome, welcome. Thank you very much.
SPEAKER_02So, Shane, um, I know you. I was gonna say I've known you for four over four years now. And so, um, but for people who might not know you, do you just want to introduce yourself and tell people who you are?
SPEAKER_01Um, so as you mentioned, uh fellow Nebraskan, I grew up in a very tiny town of 70 people. Uh and yeah, yeah. The big city uh was 10 miles away, and that was 6,700 people. That's where I went to high school, Nebraska City, and then did college in Lincoln and moved to Colorado at the age of 23. And it was uh there that I would say I really started to live my life and become myself. Um, it was around that same time that I came out and um was in a career for a while that I did not enjoy. Uh, did that for about 15 years and finally put myself back in school and then became a therapist and then just recently wrote this this book. Um, but yes, I'm 48 years old, just turned a few days ago.
SPEAKER_02Happy birthday. Happy birthday.
SPEAKER_01Thank you. And yeah, 48 years old, and now I am a published author and excited to be here and talk about the book.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, I'm super excited to have you here because I've heard great things about you despite never meeting. So I had like tons of questions. Um, but one thing you mentioned, two things you mentioned were two big transitions. One was going from Nebraska in the small town to moving to Denver, Colorado, as well as having a life career change after 15 years in one career. And so my question was do you feel like a lot of those changes were inspired or sparked, or I guess the seedings of those from your time in Nebraska? Like what led you to become a therapist? What made you decide to pick something you didn't like?
SPEAKER_01So, yeah. So I'll start with the latter. I had a bit of a rough go in undergrad. Um, ended up doing five years of undergrad. I went in with the uh belief and assumption and and hope that I was going to become an architect. Um, had been expecting to do that since I was 10 years old. And three semesters in, I got the letter saying, Yeah, no, sorry, you are not part of the program anymore because you are not cutting it. Um, it was a very competitive program. And I will say once I got into it, I realized it was not what I expected it to be and was not what I actually wanted to do. The problem there was that I didn't know anything else that I might want to do. And so all I knew was I want to make money and I want to travel. So changed my major to international business and finance and ended up graduating with a degree in business management with an undeclared finance minor. Uh and along those years of figuring that out, I did not do any internships. I got a job that a friend of mine referred me to because they worked there and it paid well. And so I stayed there and I graduated and had nothing lined up. So applied for some jobs within the company and ended up in Colorado. Um, I was in insurance for 15 years, most of which was claims. Sucked. Yeah, horrible.
SPEAKER_00A recovering insurance agent, so I get it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, condolences. Yes. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00Back at you.
SPEAKER_01Um, so yeah, it was horrible. And um I, you know, had been in it for so long and they they suck you in because you get raises and promotions, uh, and had convinced myself I'm too old to go back to school. I don't know anything else. This is all I can do. So made a few different choices along the way. But finally at 32, um, I put myself back in school and and got my degree in clinical counseling. And now, weirdly enough, I've been doing this for almost 15 years, which seems crazy that I'm old enough to have had two 15 year readers already. So, but yes, this this And you're doing it right on time. Uh it's for a change.
SPEAKER_00Sorry, you're right on time with the new book for a change.
SPEAKER_01So yes, yes. So overall, I I love it. I love the the field I'm in, and there's some things that you know need work. But uh I love my job, I love working with people, and it just felt right the minute I got into my very first class. I I just knew. I was like, yep, this is what I'm supposed to be doing.
SPEAKER_02So I love that. Um, I was gonna say it sounds like you've had you've had a variety of experiences to like get to where you are now. And I imagine that there were several components and pieces of that that that helped you like discover your most authentic self.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02And so when you think about like when when discovering who you are, what was the hardest thing to accept about what you needed to be authentic about?
SPEAKER_01I think the hardest part for for most of us when it comes to being authentic is we have to own our own shit. Like you you have to be brutally honest with yourself. And that doesn't always happen easily. It doesn't happen with the first question you ask yourself. You got to dig deeper and really be honest about where this is coming from. And I think a lot of us um tend to point the finger or try to blame someone or something for you know certain aspects of who we are. You have to look at the aspect of control and say, you know, one, what if anything did I do to play into creating this situation? And two, what about this? Do I have control over changing and focus on that? So it, yeah, it's it's been a long journey. And yes, my my various experiences um have definitely helped me figure myself out.
SPEAKER_00When when working with clients, um, I guess I'm just curious, based on what you said, what do you often get as the biggest resistance throughout the process?
SPEAKER_01In terms of generally speaking, or specifically around authenticity?
SPEAKER_00Either one, whichever you feel is most important to discuss.
SPEAKER_01Or both.
SPEAKER_00I was asking about authenticity, but it sounds like you have something else in your spirit. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So I'll come back, I'll come back to the authenticity since that's the topic, but I'll start with I think in general, um, it varies wildly depending on age and generation. Because as a Gen Xer, my generation and older, you were taught we don't do therapy. You figure that out on your own. If you're going to a therapist, something's wrong with you. Um but I would say more generally speaking, the the biggest pushback I get from people is when they say they want to change, but they're maybe not or haven't yet pushed themselves to actually take action. And and I would say that more often than not, it does come back to owning their own stuff. Um, because you'll you'll get a lot of people who want there to be a reason for what's going on with them, and they don't want none of us want to admit, oh right, uh I played a part in that.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00Sounds like our New Year's resolutions. I love that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_01And and I would say, yeah, I have an issue with New Year's resolutions. I try to avoid those at all costs. Um, but it's funny, even just words and phrases like goals versus um hopes versus New Year's resolutions. Like people put very different meaning behind certain things. And so a lot of times it's just changing the wording. Um, but going back to the question of, you know, what's the resistance with authenticity? I think that it is um people really struggling to step away from what they have been conditioned or taught to believe, either parentally, religiously, societally. Um and I'll just use, you know, one very simplistic example, which is the aspect of COVID. And prior to COVID, most companies, at least in my experience being in the corporate world for 15 years, were like, oh no, working from home or remote is not really an option. And I'm like, well, I was like, isn't it though? And so COVID clearly showed us that it was. And what was interesting to me is post-COVID, you had companies start to push for people to come back into the office. But what I noticed is one, most of them could not give a good reason behind why they wanted people back in the office. And two, you saw a difference based on the age of the people running the company. If they were Gen X and boomers or older, they're like, get back to the office. If they were millennials and younger, they're like, maybe we don't need that so much. We don't care. We're flexible. So it's just interesting in that regard. But it again, I think is stepping back and recognizing asking yourself, where did I learn this? And and do I actually believe that? Does it work for me?
SPEAKER_00So I I like that question. I like that response because something I think I struggle with a lot, especially with generations that followed after me, is I love the fact of questioning a lot of the things that we were brought up to believe and questioning them, especially when we notice that it's not having a positive impact on the world. I think where I get caught up in is the fact that I do think there are certain things that we that we learned that don't need to be so readily thrown away. And so it's always that that battle of like, okay, what things do I keep? How do I decide what to keep? How do I decide it's okay to let it go?
SPEAKER_01Exactly. Yeah. It's it's how a lot of generational trauma occurs because especially familially, we are hesitant or very highly pressured not to change those very long-standing traditions and beliefs. So yeah, it takes a lot. And one of the things I do tell people about um authenticity, it comes up when I'm having conversations about boundaries, which is one of the hardest things to um experience as you go through the process of becoming authentic and setting healthy boundaries for yourself, is it will very likely affect relationships. And in some cases, it means that relationship is no longer a healthy fit for your life and you need to step away. And when that individual or those individuals are family members or people we've known, friends we've been close to for a very long time, it is very difficult to walk away from that because we start getting in our own head of what did I do wrong? It's my fault because I set this new boundary. And I always have to challenge people. I'm like, well, why did the boundary need to be set in the first place? So yeah. And just curious, real quick, you mentioned generational. So how old are you? What generation are you?
SPEAKER_00Old enough. I'm a millennial. I do say that.
SPEAKER_02He's a millennial.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Not that I was gonna say the the running joke is that he's 19 because he he like Mariah Carey never dealt with.
SPEAKER_00I didn't pick 19, but I go with it. I got 22 the other day. Like some guy told me, but you're only in your 20s. He's like, you he's like, you people like you that are like 22, 24. And I was like, thank you. Yes. Finally, someone sees me for who I really am.
SPEAKER_02Authenticity. You get me. You get me.
SPEAKER_00Prince said, Prince said you're born once and then you die. He said, All those markers were made up by other people to make you feel stifled. I truly believe, like, I don't think about age, so I never feel restricted by what I can do.
SPEAKER_01No, it's I come from a family.
SPEAKER_00My body tells me otherwise.
SPEAKER_01Well, that's that's the one thing. Yeah. Every every now and again, I'm like, oh, I feel like I'm much older than I am. Um, things don't heal as quick. But yeah, my my mother's family are very youthful. And I took that from their side. And and we age well too. So that's I'm not mad about that.
SPEAKER_00Drink water, magic business, and SPF. SPF is important. We have to add that in the conversation.
SPEAKER_01Yes, that's right. Yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02So, Shane, it sounds like um you meet a lot of different people at different stages of their journeys around kind of confronting traumas or just learning who they are. I am curious when you would say maybe your own journey with authenticity started.
SPEAKER_01Ah, yes. Okay. Um I touch on this in the book a little bit, but it's it has been um steps. Uh, I would say the first time I really had an a moment of I need to change things was when I moved out to Colorado. Um, again, I was 23. I did not come out until I moved out here, even though I knew I was gonna get like 10. Um, but I did not feel I could be that person back home. It was one of the biggest reasons I left. So I get out here, I come out, and around that same time, I had um one incident in particular that stood out for me where a friend, someone I thought was a friend, did something that showed to me that they were using me. And it was so inappropriate, and it was in front of other friends of ours. And it was just in that moment where I was like, oh, this person is not a real friend to me. I am here for their benefit. Um, and so it was around that time that I kind of had the first aha moment of I don't have good boundaries and I don't like that. So that was around the first time I started making some changes. But in terms of getting to a place where I stopped toning it down or minimizing myself or trying to be something I wasn't, that honestly has only been within about the last, I would say about 15 years. And a significant push started almost uh 10 years ago when I read a book that was one of only a couple books that inspired me regarding my book. Um, it was a self-help book called You Are a Badass by Jen Sincero. Love you, Jen. Hit me up. Um it was the first time I felt like I could allow myself to make my own choices, to be me, to not do things out of obligation or expectation, which I've always hated and had resentment around. Um but interestingly enough, even as I was writing the book, I noticed that I wanted to push myself to be absolutely 100% authentic as often as I could. And I say that because I think there are moments in life that we encounter where we're still trying to decide how do I feel in this moment? Do I feel safe? Am I comfortable being myself? And so that's the only little caveat I caveat I give around being one's authentic self. I think we can be authentic even at times when we choose to dial it back, if you will. So um, so yeah, it's it's been a long journey, but uh I would say the biggest chunk has been the last probably um seven-ish years.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Yeah. Nice. I was gonna say you you you mentioned the book. Um you asked me to read and review the book, and I loved it and I really enjoyed it. Um it got me there there are a lot of there are a lot of prompts in the book that that got me thinking about my own life and just kind of how I approach attempting to live a more authentic life for myself too. Um what was your approach in writing the book to like to create these prompts in order to get people to to think about how they can live a most a more their most authentic life? And like, what are you hoping people will get out of the book?
SPEAKER_01So I have been considering writing a book for about five-ish years, I would say, because I know it was pre-COVID. Um, but I had three ideas of what kind of book I might want to write. One was my own story. Um, one was a self-help book, even though I really hate that genre. Um, generally speaking, the ones I've read all come off as very preachy and condescending, and like the author knows everything, and you're an idiot, and you should breathe through your belly button and whatever else to get aligned. I'm like, okay, can we talk like normal people? Which when I found Jen's book, You Are a Badass, it that's what it was. It reads like just a normal book or normal people talk. So that was huge. Um they so it was either my story, a self-help book, or some sort of workbook that challenges people to ask questions about themselves. Um, it's something that I do often in my private practice with clients. I really push them to ask questions about themselves, but not just stop at that first answer. Go deeper, keep going. So, for example, as you went through the book, you probably noticed there would be a question. And then beneath that question was why or why not? Or please explain further. Because we often say, Oh, I don't like mornings. Okay, like why? And like, what what do you know about yourself? And so it's it's digging deeper. Um with regard to putting the book together, I finally decided that I wanted to do this book because um I wasn't, I decided I wasn't ready to tell my story because it's not done and who knows what's still to come. And two, the the self-help aspect I wanted to incorporate, but I wanted it to be unique. And I hit a period a few years back where I started to recognize how uncomfortable I was being inauthentic. And it, you know, again, I had made a lot of progress, but um part of it was related to my husband having a certain job where um we had to interact with a certain population of people that often came off to me as fake. And it just like literally, I had a reaction and I started to call it the ick. And I was like, I don't want to be anything but myself ever again. So I really started to challenge myself and I said, all right, I'm gonna put the book together around this. And in order to do that, I think we have to ask questions. And so I started putting together an outline and it came together pretty organically, honestly. The way I set up the book is I allow people to do an introduction, basically, who am I? You know, some basic information about themselves, name, weight, you know, uh hair color, you know, blah, blah, blah. And then I move into how did I get here? And what I really dove into there is aspects of, you know, family, upbringing, um, traditions, uh, cultural aspects, where you grew up, how you were raised, those types of things, really challenging people to think about what led me to become. This person that I am. And then the big central section of the book is about where the person is now and really asking questions about every different area of their lives. And some of the questions get very direct, because I'm always very direct, but also touch on some subjects that are often considered to be taboo or things we don't talk openly about to others. And I felt like the workbook was a way like you can do this without having to be vulnerable with others. You can keep it to yourself. But it gets into things like aspects of sex and sexuality and relationships. It gets into religion and politics. It gets into money, career, um, social life and friends. It really touches on a lot of different areas. And then the third section is what now? What's next? And that gets into really again being honest with yourself about what your priorities are and using that to then establish some goals for yourself. Where do I want to go? And a big part of that, of course, includes who am I as a person? Who is the person I really want to be? And I think a lot of people often assume that when you say be authentic, it just happens. That's no, it takes effort. Um, because you do get into things of like owning your own stuff and setting boundaries. And both of those can be uncomfortable. So it is not necessarily easy. So one of the things I've learned through my practice that I stepped away from because I know I used to do it, I would often say just da-da-da. And I try to remove that word from my vocabulary because anytime you say just whatever, it minimizes the difficulty to the other person and or minimizes the the level of their trauma or whatever's associated with it, you know. So um that that's sort of how the book is outlined. And then there's kind of a summary of each section and a challenge to, you know, choose what you want to do moving forward. So that's how the book is outlined.
SPEAKER_00I love that because so often when you read certain types of books or books within this field, that latter part is what's missing. It's like, okay, well, I understand what happened. I get where I am. Now go find the next part. Now what? So that's really amazing. Um, to know that that's kind of what you want people to be able to discover for themselves. Um how do you feel? Do you feel this book is something that could work in tandem with a therapy um program? Because in many ways it mimics some of the thing aspects that people approach in therapy.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Um, in fact, it's one of the next steps I am working on. So the aspect of this book is to be utilized by individuals who either want to find themselves, you know, rediscover themselves, um, are going through a big life transition and are trying to figure out, well, who am I now that I'm divorced after a long time, or changing careers later in life, as I did. Um and I'm working on putting together two different workshops. One will be for therapists to utilize the book with their clients. The other will be for individuals who read the book and then want to take that further. I look at the the book as a starting point for individuals. It is, it is this this book is not you know going to be your cure, your fix. It people need to understand that there will be work involved, not just during the book, but after. Um, so yes, I do believe it can be a very good tool for uh therapists, excuse me, to use with their clients. Um and then also for there to be stuff beyond the book that people can do, which is where my workshops are, you know, getting their own therapists or other things can come into play.
SPEAKER_00Awesome. So you actually touched on something that I had a question about because of our listenership. So, as you alluded to, you are married to a public figure whose career brings a lot of attention to both of you as a unit. Um, and many of our listeners, we've learned, are in similar situations, married to, say, doctors, lawyers, judges, community leaders, et cetera. And I remember listening to Michelle Obama opining frequently, actually, about how such how she had such feelings during Obama's presidency. And so I was curious, what advice would you give to spouses or partners in situations like that to maintain their own authenticity instead of wrapping it into the identity of their partners? I and I guess children could apply as well. I mean, they're children that also have parents in those situations.
SPEAKER_01First of all, I'd like to say thank you for comparing me to Michelle Obama. Yeah, people love Michelle Obama.
SPEAKER_00I love Michelle Obama. I do feel like that's kind of who I am.
SPEAKER_01Um seriously, though. Um, my being married to my husband who is locally very well known has come with perks and challenges. And I think that's the case with anybody in a similar situation. Um there's challenges when you see that your partner is struggling with the aspects that go along with that. Um, you know, part of his role is that he is a volunteer in this particular role. And so he doesn't get paid for doing what he does. And he's been doing it now for 23 years, and it's something that only happens, you know, at a certain time of the year. But the planning and the time and energy that goes into preparing for it is a lot. And it often goes unnoticed, um, unacknowledged, and or a lot of people don't really understand the extent of what he does. And so there have been moments where I've gotten frustrated that, you know, he's not getting that acknowledgement. Um, I also get frustrated when people expect things. Um I struggle, like I said, with not being my authentic self. So when you have to, when you're in situations where you're expected to play the game, so to speak, um whether it's, you know, I need to nail down a donor or I need to, you know, make sure this person is happy with the scenario, it's a lot. Again, because sometimes you're not being yourself. Sometimes it's the the other people that you're doing this for just expect it and or come off as entitled. And I don't do well with that. Um, but also in a more private setting, I see the stress and and effects that it has on him. And then, of course, that energy affects my energy. Um, and so that's where I think it can get difficult. Um there's also been a couple other moments. We've been together for 15 years, and we are a great sort of yin and yang to one another. That being said, there are areas where we differ. And when those differences come up, it's that aspect of, okay, how do we navigate this? Um, and I'll just give an example. Before we met, my version of celebrating pride was a party all weekend or, you know, whatever, going out every night, you know, all of that. And his version has always been MCing the main um uh entertainment stage. And so the first year we got together, it it was a bit, it was a bit rough. And and we did get into an argument because we were used to to experiencing that weekend in very different ways. Um, and I showed up late for something, which was not my fault. It was actually, you know, uh his friend's, you know, own your. No, I'm just kidding. Yeah, exactly. Uh yeah, no. In this case, it wasn't all. But yeah, we got into an argument and then had to have a very, you know, in-depth conversation about like, okay, what what are our expectations moving forward? How are we going to do this? Um, and and finding that middle ground. So as with just about anything, um, and any any client of mine would attest to this, I am very frequently talking about communication and the importance of communication within any relationship, whether it is a partner, a sibling, or a parent or a child, or a coworker or a friend. I think that if there's not good, healthy, quality communication, that relationship is going to struggle. And so I push for that a lot. And even going deeper with that, part of the authenticity piece is how do you communicate with yourself? How do you describe yourself? What do you say about yourself to others? That type of thing. So I hope that answers your question.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. It really did. And if I may, follow up with that, because you mentioned the difference between the two of you, like when handling certain scenarios, especially around authenticity. So I was curious because it's a conversation that I'm usually, I guess, your husband in this situation, um, in terms of I can just, you know, put it on and do the thing.
SPEAKER_02He has an IMDB page. So he has nothing to do with anything.
SPEAKER_00But I present a celebrity. Uh-huh. I was curious what makes it easier for others and harder for others, uh, some people, because like I know that naturally for me, it's like, oh, I don't even feel like it's a thing. It's just like this, okay, I put it on, I'm going, I'm done. But for some people, it really is a challenge to do that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um I think it is uh there's a few things. One, I do really think that communication is a huge part of it. Um, my husband and I had a a scenario that occurred very early on in our relationship. It was about five months in or so, and we're we're talking because I realized he was upset and he was, you know, it was directed at me. And I'm like, I don't understand why you're upset about this. And then he made a comment, and all of a sudden I realized, oh, we're not talking about this that we're talking about. We're talking about this scenario over here. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We're not doing this. I was like, you're not gonna take that over there out on me because it has nothing to do with me. And so from very early on, we decided, look, we're going to be brutally honest and upfront with each other. We're gonna talk about things as they come up, even the hard stuff, we're not gonna sit on it. And I think that has made it much easier for us. Um, the other aspect, I think, is um going back to that piece of you got to be honest with yourself. Like, what, if anything, is my part in this? And really pay attention to how you feel in certain situations. If you're feeling off or something doesn't quite uh feel right for you, you need to question that. Where's that coming from? Because your body tells you things, it doesn't, you know, give you words to listen to, but it talks to you, it communicates with you when something is or isn't working. And we need to listen to that, pay attention.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I love that.
SPEAKER_02I agreed. So as we start to wrap up, Shane, you have talked a lot about like what you hope readers will gain from reading your book. I'm curious what you gained by writing the book and how people can also support you in your work.
SPEAKER_01Wow, great question. Uh oddly enough, the experience of writing the book, I did learn a lot about myself. And it's interesting that I went into this thinking I had a pretty good idea of what I wanted to write and where I was at in my own journey. And as I was writing it and as I started getting feedback from people like you and others who I had do a pre-review of the book, um, as I talked to other um colleagues who have written books. Um, and as I was going through the publishing process, which again, first time I'm ever doing this, I'm learning so many different things and coming across things. I'm like, oh, hadn't thought about that. Oh, I need to update that. And so what's interesting is one, prior to about five years ago, I never really even thought about writing a book. But as I was doing this book, people were coming back to me with different ideas and they were like, well, okay, I think you could take this book and make it more specific to certain populations. And I was like, Yeah, that makes sense. Um, another friend who is, you know, Mexican and speaks Spanish is like, have you ever considered doing a version in Spanish? And I was like, Well, not until now. Um, and even in considering, like, let's say certain things happen and we decide to move to a different country, um that uh, you know, I was like, okay, if I go to Europe, I would want to talk to people there.
SPEAKER_02Our last episode was about escaping.
SPEAKER_01So but that aspect of like, okay, I want to talk to those people, go over the current book with them and be like, okay, what is not specific to your culture and your where you're from? Um, because it is there is a difference. And I tried to be very inclusive in this book, but I also recognized that it's not going to resonate with everyone or or certain sections aren't. So there was that aspect. But even as I was talking to my mother about it, we were talking and she was it it seems like she was almost trying to defend herself by when she came out after, you know, getting the book was like, I just don't know if it's for me. And I was like, okay. And she it was like it's almost like she felt regretful for that and was trying to explain why. And she started going along, and I realized, okay, her and I maybe don't have the exact same definition or understanding of what authenticity means or what it means to be authentic. And in that moment, one of the things I realized about my book is I don't actually have anywhere in the book that defines it, that gives a definition. And so if I go back and do any updates or, you know, next edition, um, I would want to include not just the dictionary definition, but my own version of what I see authenticity as. And letting people well, yeah, it's yeah, it's Shane How just defines authenticity as the way I look at it is, and I touched on this briefly earlier. One of the things that I hated about being inauthentic was those moments where I knew that I was minimizing myself, hiding behind a mask, pretending to be something I wasn't, toning it down. I've always hated that. Um and it gave me that icky feeling. And so to me, authenticity doesn't mean that you necessarily never do those things. Authenticity is more about you choosing if and when you do those things. It is you being the most real and genuine and honest uh version of yourself you can be in any situation. And so, for example, generally speaking, I say generally speaking, I don't give a shit what people think. That being said, I'm not going to be my most flaming homosexual self if I go somewhere like, you know, the deep south and we're in some little backwoods small town rest stop on the way to wherever we're going. Um, I may not, you know, openly kiss or hold hands with my husband in a place like that. And I don't think that I'm being inauthentic in those moments. I think that I am being wise and choosing not to put myself in a situation that could lead to something negative. If that makes sense. No, it does. I like that. So that's sort of how I define authenticity.
SPEAKER_02I was gonna say, speak for yourself. I'm very popular in the Bayou.
SPEAKER_00Oh, you know, speaking of, speaking of, that goes to my question. I wanted to know, David, as someone who had the privilege of reading the book before it was fully published and everything like that. What did you take away from the book in terms of your own thoughts on authenticity to yourself? But also what did you learn about your friend that maybe you did not know beforehand?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So, you know, it's funny. I've known Shane for a little over four years now. And what's he, I don't know, I don't know if you all have this, but like when you have friends, but you like you know them in one capacity, but you don't necessarily know them in like their professional capacity. I knew that Shane was a therapist. Like I've been to like I went to his open house of like his new like wellness um center. And so I got to see the facility. I got to meet some of his colleagues. But like reading this book, I got more insights into his intellect. And I because I every time I see him, I see him showing up as what what appears to me as his authentic self. Yeah. Because he's always joyful. He's always, he's always really fun to be around, he's always compassionate. And um, and just like some of the personal stories that he shares in the book, like particularly about like being a go-go dancer. And I was like, I and I know that like through conversations you had you had shared with me about like, okay, do I put this in there? Do I put this in there? And it was like, if I excluded it, would I be being authentic? And so, like just like knowing kind of your thought process around like what to include and what not to include, and kind of balancing and navigating your own authenticity. Because I'm like, this is like this is a physical copy of this book. Like, this is not like you can you can get the book digitally, but you can also on Amazon.com or at sphproductions.com, or you can, or you can get it physically too. But I was like, this is an actual asset. Like, what is in here? It is like words on paper. It is real. You can't really take it back. And I really admire the courage. And I was like, to me, it just aligns with everything that I've known about him already, and just like this is me, take it or leave it. And and kind of like he said earlier, but like maybe it's not, maybe he's not for everybody, and that's okay. But I think that everyone can benefit from this book. Like, for me, it it asks a lot of questions as I've been kind of back in my own therapeutic journey for over the last year, year and a half. Um I plan, I have not started yet, but I was like, I plan to use it as a tool in some of my own therapy sessions um to kind of dig deeper in some of my own work as I as I continue trying to climb up Maslow's hierarchy. So yeah. So, Shane, where can people um follow you? Where can they buy the book? Where can they support you?
SPEAKER_01Thank you. Um, yes, I I would just like to say a couple things about the book. So um it's time to be you, how to be your most authentic self. Love the book. Um, so the book can be found in two places currently: sphproductions.com, uh, and also on Amazon. It is available on my website in hardcover or paperback, and on Amazon, both of those as well as the ebook. Um, I do want to be clear that it is a workbook. And so if you get the ebook, you may be still writing things down on a different piece of paper. Um that being said, uh, the the book is available for sale, and I would very much appreciate your your support. Um, you can check out the website at SPH Productions, get a little bit more information about me. Um, and also you can follow me on Instagram, DenverGuy76. Um, I'm on Facebook, Shane Hodges. Let's see, what else? Um, working on getting some other things set up. So uh more to come.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's exciting. We'll put a link in the show notes so people can go to sphproductions.com.
SPEAKER_00And I do make more if you get it there. And I had a quick question. Um, now that the book is out, have you gotten any feedback that has sparked thoughts for your follow-up? I know you talked about different versions of this book, if you move or different things like that, but have you thought about what would be next that you would want to write about?
SPEAKER_01Um, in terms of doing a different book, no. Um, I do still have a part of me that wants to tell my story and share just more of my experiences. Um, but nothing, nothing in the works yet. And and I think I've got some time left. So uh right now I'm gonna be focusing on expanding upon what can be done with this book, creating some workshops, uh, hopefully doing some speaking engagements, uh, love to do more interviews like this, expand just the the the reach of the book and get it out there. So that's where we're at for now.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, awesome. Well, I appreciate you stopping by today as part of our interview series where we get to create conversations. It's personally my favorite stuff to do. Um, but yeah, we've uh used up a lot of we thank you for everyone being so patient and enjoying this interview with us. We normally do shorter ones, but we feel like you guys enjoy the long interviews too, and which you've showed us.
SPEAKER_02So yes, Day has been wanting to have more guests and do interviews for a while, and we have some additional interviews lined up. And Shane, thank you for being um willing to come on. And come on with us and talk. Go buy Shane's book. There will be a link in the show notes. And like um, like supporting Shane, which we have done by purchasing the book and by having him on the podcast. You can also support our work by becoming a Patreon member at Call Me Limbo Pod, get early access to the episodes for less than $5 a month. You can also do one-time donations on Venmo at Call Me Limbo Pod. Any amount helps us out. You can get in touch with us at Call Me Limbo Pod on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, and threads. Let us know what you thought of this interview. Let us know how your journey toward authenticity is going. Um, rate this episode five stars and this podcast five stars on your platform of choice. Share with a friend, and you know, Day and Shane. Like I always say, I said this on a previous episode about how I don't chase, I attract these days. I told my therapist that she just kind of smirked. But like I always say, the only thing I'm chasing these days is self-actualization. I love this for you. I love this.
SPEAKER_00So thank you all so much, and we will see you all next week.
SPEAKER_02And remember, when they go low, we pursue our most authentic lives. So call me limbo, Michelle.
SPEAKER_01Bye.
SPEAKER_02Yes, bye.